ShiXinFeng wrote:

Vinia wrote:

 Don't think because of your history that you are still required to do that job, because that's exactly what your job is... history.

If that is so, then why does Zion exist in the first place?

Isolated, underlined and put in bold so you can read it properly this time...

Vinia wrote:

ShiXinFeng wrote:

Vinia wrote:

 Don't think because of your history that you are still required to do that job, because that's exactly what your job is... history.

If that is so, then why does Zion exist in the first place?

Isolated, underlined and put in bold so you can read it properly this time...

"Your job is done here, now all go and die as you were supposed to be from the beginning." Very humane, Vinia, indeed. But hey, you don't care about anything else than your blues, why should you care about the rest?

- DD

When did I say go and die? I'd rather prefer you stay in New Zion, look after the innocent children and civilians and prosper there, at least then I can try to persuade the Machines to leave you alone, but I know that you have no intentions of doing so.

If you truly know me as your statement suggests you do, you'd know that I care about more than just the blues, but as blues are the Human race, you're *CENSORED* right I care about them, in fact the only thing I care about more than the blues is the vision of the future, of Mankind and Machine united.

I probably won't see this future, most likely down to the actions of you and yours, so making sure bluepills survive past my expiration matters more to me than anything.

AlphaCoder wrote:

GamiSB wrote:

AlphaCoder wrote:

So the fact that I simply noticed something was wrong and one of your fools latched on to that and approached me about it has nothing to do with the fact that I am in the Real? The way you butter up being "free" could make anyone take the red pill, then they're stuck, just like the rest of us poor s*ds, all because you lot can't keep yourselves contained when you see someone who is starting to see through the wonderful world they live in.

As for buttering it all up, I can't say I was there for your awakening or knew how it all went down. In some causes I can understand why people went as they did such as with Haigen, but every awakening I have seen done by a Zionite/Neonite is cliche at best and follows almost word for word what Morpheus told Neo. Recruiters/awakeners/whatever you want to call them make it perfectly clear that this isn't some ride at Disney, you won't be able to turn back, and that it is a hard and almost unbearable truth. Which is all Zion or EPN have ever offered. That redpill wasn't handed out promising a 4 star hotel to stay in once its all over, or a new wonderful life. Just the truth. If yours didn't go according to plan sorry you got dealt this hand but you had it coming from the moment you felt the splinter but you always had the option to play it or fold.

You mean to tell me you don't think/see how telling them they have been living a lie is practically a guarantee that they will pop that stupid red pill? "You've been living a lie, discover the truth". You think people are going to turn that down, once you have said that they don't listen to the rest of what you tell them, they are too busy wondering what the hell "the truth" is gunna be after being blissfully ignorant for however long.
You are no longer required, why can't you accept this and go gracefully, let the Machines sort you out with a comfy disconnecting, don't go kicking and screaming just because there is nothing left for you to do here, why can't you see that that's the case?

Right, John Doe, father, working for a nice software company living in Tabor Park is just going to jump at the impulse of "Everything you know is a lie!" without having ever thought that in the first place. Leave his wife, kids, job, everything just cuse some druggie on the street tells them to take a pill? Seriously start actually thinking for realistically here.

You know that saying "No one can be told what the Matrix is" You ever stopped and wondered exactly why that is? Because it takes someone that is completely insane by bluepill standards to believe the truth. No one that has had no reason to question the Matrix is going to want to be freed from it. You don't ask why 2+2=5 without knowing figuring that something might be wrong and that's exactly what the Matrix tries to cover up. Tells people to believe something that only 1% realise that something is wrong. And then even that isn't enough to go out looking for the answer or even believing it when you do find it. You have people that just don't care, people that are to lazy, people that are fine with it it being 5 but do realize that something's wrong. There is much more to the process then fancy quotes and two pills.

GoDGiVeR wrote:

Vinia wrote:

ShiXinFeng wrote:

Vinia wrote:

 Don't think because of your history that you are still required to do that job, because that's exactly what your job is... history.

If that is so, then why does Zion exist in the first place?

Isolated, underlined and put in bold so you can read it properly this time...

"Your job is done here, now all go and die as you were supposed to be from the beginning." Very humane, Vinia, indeed. But hey, you don't care about anything else than your blues, why should you care about the rest?

- DD

When did I say go and die? I'd rather prefer you stay in New Zion, look after the innocent children and civilians and prosper there, at least then I can try to persuade the Machines to leave you alone, but I know that you have no intentions of doing so.

If you truly know me as your statement suggests you do, you'd know that I care about more than just the blues, but as blues are the Human race, you're *CENSORED* right I care about them, in fact the only thing I care about more than the blues is the vision of the future, of Mankind and Machine united.

I probably won't see this future, most likely down to the actions of you and yours, so making sure bluepills survive past my expiration matters more to me than anything.

John Peskin may not have been visibly murdered by Cinquez, but the men protecting him at the time of his death--the same men who murdered Peskin--were under his command. It took a long time to track that ship down and draw information from a crew member himself. That Cinquez murdered bluepills to fit with his self-obsessed, maniacal agenda is fact.

The man was a rat and a coward, and died like one.

- Tranta

 Well for starters, you have shown no proof that he was a murderer, for all I know when you say "Murderer" You could mean he Awakened people and you didn't like it.

 However even if he was a Murderer, I'm glad he managed to redeem himself by killing your Stupid Boarding party and wasted Obscuri.

 Before you go around calling Cinquez a Coward, I suggest you look at yourselfs first. While Killing Bluepills is a detestable act, he probably only been that for a week. While you killing Redpills by pulling out their jacks and not confronting them head on, has been going on for over 2 years now.  The Cypherites are a collection of Cowards and Veil is the Chief amongst them.

Last thing. Speaking of Veil, I remember her saying these words to Machinists "This just won't do, dearie. The Machines have decided to let the Intruder do whatever he wants, but how long do you think you can go around cleaning up the messes he makes? If they haven't got the guts to stand up to him, then maybe they should step aside for those who can." Now She said these words and yet your Organisation has done nothing to stop the Intruder. So clearly by returning to killing Zionites, I can only conclude that you are too weak to handle the Intruder and left the problem to the Machines. So are you all Talk and no Action or are you actually going to get off your Fat Butts and do something useful for a change and get rid of the Intruder?

 Be Seeing you Tranty.

Vinia wrote:

When did I say go and die? I'd rather prefer you stay in New Zion, look after the innocent children and civilians and prosper there, at least then I can try to persuade the Machines to leave you alone, but I know that you have no intentions of doing so.

If you truly know me as your statement suggests you do, you'd know that I care about more than just the blues, but as blues are the Human race, you're *CENSORED* right I care about them, in fact the only thing I care about more than the blues is the vision of the future, of Mankind and Machine united.

I probably won't see this future, most likely down to the actions of you and yours, so making sure bluepills survive past my expiration matters more to me than anything.

 You can't stop that 1% of bluepills from realising how fake the Matrix is. Someone must be their to extract them, you can't keep shoving Bluepills down their throats and Zion extracts them, for those who choose to take the Redpill. If you think we are going to stand by and watch them be recycled or even let those Redpills fill the ranks of the Machines Army or Cypherite Terrorists, them your more stupid than I thought.

You obviously haven't read the previous posts, I'm not attempting to stop the 1% who cannot accept the simulation from waking. I just said that we do not need Zion to wake them up to allow the simulation to run normally, this is shown by the system being declared out of bounds to Zionites. If Zion still had an essential function it would not be efficient for the Machines to attempt to stop them.

No Machinist I have heard of has ever 'shoved' bluepills down anyones throat, the only people to do that are the Cypherites. Also, it is only the dead in the pods who get recycled not living bluepills, I can't believe that you would think that if bluepills do not wish to join the Machinists that they'd get recycled... The only place where you could have gotten that idea is from Zion propaganda.

The majority of Machinists are redpills 'freed' by Zion who have agreed with or see the benefit of working with the Machines we do not wake bluepills specifically to bolster our forces, not when we get a steady number leaving Zion to join us. If you are not going to let the redpills join us then you are prohibiting them their choice... something which I thought you so passionately want everyone to have freedom of... or is the correct choice only something which you approve of?

You obviously haven't read the previous posts, I'm not attempting to stop the 1% who cannot accept the simulation from waking. I just said that we do not need Zion to wake them up to allow the simulation to run normally, this is shown by the system being declared out of bounds to Zionites. If Zion still had an essential function it would not be efficient for the Machines to attempt to stop them.

No Machinist I have heard of has ever 'shoved' bluepills down anyones throat, the only people to do that are the Cypherites. Also, it is only the dead in the pods who get recycled not living bluepills, I can't believe that you would think that if bluepills do not wish to join the Machinists that they'd get recycled... The only place where you could have gotten that idea is from Zion propaganda.

The majority of Machinists are redpills 'freed' by Zion who have agreed with or see the benefit of working with the Machines we do not wake bluepills specifically to bolster our forces, not when we get a steady number leaving Zion to join us. If you are not going to let the redpills join us then you are prohibiting them their choice... something which I thought you so passionately want everyone to have freedom of... or is the correct choice only something which you approve of?

So you are prepared to give them their choice? Zion or Machines?

You'll forgive me if I don't trust you masters to allow that.

You argue that Zion has no purpose now; that the Machines and the bluepills no longer need Zion to interfere. This is foolish in the extreme. Zion exists because there must be a choice; without it, there is only the Matrix.

Who are you to take our purpose away from us?

Oh, that's right, a Machine apologist. You're a traitor to your kind. 

The Seed of Evil came to Adam in a pleasing form, that of an apple that he could eat. And who gave him that apple? His companion, his wife, Eve, knowing full well the evil it contained. Would you, Vinia, be the one to give the apple to your fellow man? Your words are full of promise and pleading, asking us to stop fighting and you'll make the Machines understand that we all just want to get along. Just lay down your guns, Zion, and everything will be fine, right?

Again, after all I've seen of what the Machine is capable, you'll forgive me if I can't trust them. Or you.

The Seed of Evil came to Adam in a pleasing form

Zion exists because there must be a choice; without it, there is only the Matrix.

Who are you to take our purpose away from us?

Whilst I had to stifle a bout of laughter I can still answer this.

The choice is to accept the simulation or not, nothing more, nothing less. Zion existed due to a process of the choice, a process which has since changed, there can still be a choice without Zion, bluepills make this decision without knowledge of Zion or its inhabitants. Try not to delude yourselfs, If Zion were to disappear tomorrow the choice would still exist. You are grasping at a defunct idea purpose in order to convince yourselves that you exist for a reason. I will not deny that before Neo's truce, Zion was a vital aspect of keeping the simulation working, but things change.

The only people who can take away your purpose are those who gave it to you and seeing as Zion was built due to the requirements of the Machines as a layer of control, they can certainly take it away again.

GamiSB wrote:

Please do us all a favor and stop trying to put words in my mouth. You know perfectly well what was meant there and it was hardly that Zion and EPN are the only ones that could do the job. It was simply to say that its needed (much to our Cypherites friends dismay). As for removing splinters I'll believe it when I see it and given that we have people that took the blue pill still fighting at the impulse I'd say your full of just waiting to believe it or you can show some actual evidence for it. How ironic that the organization that preaches logic and reason still sets so much on blind faith.

GamiSB wrote:

Zion/EPN go out and looks for the 1% that have problems with the system. Some can deal with it and cope for awhile but eventually they all hit that stage where nothing makes sense and if they are not removed by Zion they self substantiate and possibly cause others to question or even worse hurting others. So while I'm sure you own bias is going to just ignore all this, even when it comes from the guy that built your dream world, Zion freeing people is a needed part of the system and without it those 99 dreamers you want to keep all snug in their beds are never going to get that perfect sleep.

No words were put in your mouth, what I highlighted was the lack of words from your mouth. If you mean something, say it. If we were to apply what we think you meant, that'd be putting words into your mouth. Show me a bluepill who has had questions about his environment, taken the bluepill and is still 'fighting at the impulse'. Just because you haven't seen it does not mean its not happening. I've not seen Zion or EPN wake any bluepills for a good while, but that does not mean its not happening...

Lack of evidence does not mean you can disregard peoples beliefs or that something isn't happening. Also, whilst I represent my Organisation, basing any assumption on it's beliefs and thoughts on my own is flawed.

No you did put words in my mouth. Does that highlighted area say that ONLY Zion and EPN do this? No it just says that they do. No where to I sudgest that those two groups are the only people that can or should free minds. Also the burdon of proof is on you to show me evidence that the Machine can remove the splinter. All you've given me is your opinion but nothing to show why your opinion is the truth.

As for the bluepill, it is nothing more then a sleeping pill with a code to block the redpill in it. There is nothing in it that rearanges how one thinks.

Zion/EPN go out and looks for the 1% that have problems with the system. Some can deal with it and cope for awhile but eventually they all hit that stage where nothing makes sense and if they are not removed by Zion they self substantiate and possibly cause others to question or even worse hurting others. So while I'm sure you own bias is going to just ignore all this, even when it comes from the guy that built your dream world, Zion freeing people is a needed part of the system and without it those 99 dreamers you want to keep all snug in their beds are never going to get that perfect sleep.

Lol! You really believe that you are required by the system to wake up the 1%

Once again, a shot, and a miss (by a mile I might add). Of course the average "John Doe", father of 4, successful IT employee isn't going to just up and leave people he loves and the life he loves. However if they don't believe it's real any more, and (you said it yourself) are regarded as a bit of a nut case, then what have they to lose? They get to prove to everyone they were right, they get to see "the truth", they get to look out, from the other side of the looking glass. You don't approach "innocent blues" you approach "vulnerable blues".
So don't try and fool me with this innocent blue pills getting to choose and having freedom of choice, you perform such an act each time you "free" someone that, in their dizzy state of mind, being bombarded by all these truths and all these wondrous promises of seeing the truth, even if it won't be easy and you can't go back, will almost certainly say yes; because as I said before, they stop listening once you mention seeing the truth, and start fantasising .

Assuming much? Seriously where do you come up with this stuff? Who stops listening when someones offering you everything they've ever wanted? Sorry if you decided to go deaf halfway through your awakening but really now to generalize everyone else as being that idiotic is really something. If they go deaf that is purely their fault. We can't control what they do and listen to all we can do is answer what we can and open the door for them. Yeah we may have an idea of what a person's going to pick when it comes time to offering the pills but that doesn't make them take the red, they still have to pick up the pill and swallow. Again there is much more to this process then just "Want to know the truth? Pick a pill".

And lets assume for a moment that no one did this. Didn't bother with the 1%. 3 million people in a city of 300 million. All looking for answers, detaching themselves from society until "those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster."

View it however you want but at least try and realize that "praying on the vulnerable" leaves the 99% to sleep sweet and soundly.

ShiXinFeng wrote:

Zion exists because there must be a choice; without it, there is only the Matrix.

Who are you to take our purpose away from us?

Whilst I had to stifle a bout of laughter I can still answer this.

The choice is to accept the simulation or not, nothing more, nothing less. Zion existed due to a process of the choice, a process which has since changed, there can still be a choice without Zion, bluepills make this decision without knowledge of Zion or its inhabitants. Try not to delude yourselfs, If Zion were to disappear tomorrow the choice would still exist. You are grasping at a defunct idea purpose in order to convince yourselves that you exist for a reason. I will not deny that before Neo's truce, Zion was a vital aspect of keeping the simulation working, but things change.

The only people who can take away your purpose are those who gave it to you and seeing as Zion was built due to the requirements of the Machines as a layer of control, they can certainly take it away again.

GamiSB wrote:

Zion/EPN go out and looks for the 1% that have problems with the system. Some can deal with it and cope for awhile but eventually they all hit that stage where nothing makes sense and if they are not removed by Zion they self substantiate and possibly cause others to question or even worse hurting others. So while I'm sure you own bias is going to just ignore all this, even when it comes from the guy that built your dream world, Zion freeing people is a needed part of the system and without it those 99 dreamers you want to keep all snug in their beds are never going to get that perfect sleep.

The highlighted phrases lead Vinia to the following obvious conclusion:

Vinia wrote:

Lol! You really believe that you are required by the system to wake up the 1%

Then you say she's put words in your mouth? No, she didn't. If you had meant that merely freeing people was a requirement, you'd say that. Instead, you said Zion & EPN are required to do it. You don't use the word 'only', no, but in the context in which you've stated your case, that word isn't necessary; it's implicit.

Now drop it.